Author Topic: Current trend of comic artists.  (Read 1965 times)

Keiichi

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Current trend of comic artists.
« on: October 10, 2011, 02:43:44 AM »
Assalamualaikum and good day to fellow forumers.

The reason i created this thread because of i'm doing a research on my own (and that nagging curiosity) regarding the trend of current artists that mostly favors myths and simpler stories (and lack of in-depth stories). I've looked though the applications and people who pitched at IPCC and the ones on the shelves at the stores, and i have to say that there's a lack of variety to an extent and that sparked my curiosity regarding this matter. On an average, there's only 3/10 that will pique the interest of the viewers, but what happened to the rest? Aside from comics, it also affected the animation and mobile games as well.  In 2012 alone, there's plenty of stories basing on myths, both in comics and animation. At this rate we will get things we see from 2-3 years ago popping up again during pitching. Keep note that i never say its bad, but to be honest, its been done over and over.

 I just wanted to know why they prefer it to be that way. I've asked several people which some of them are editors, artists and enthusiasts. However, its enlightening to hear what they've said. Some of the points are:

- Limitations due to KDN ruling.
This is some of the bigger ones. The ruling to prohibit various things from smoking, sexy outfits to even cursing. One will get a notice from them or barred from registering their product, thus denying their ISBN code (correct me if im wrong). Personally i've seen the notice and its disheartening to see what they've said.

- Backgrounds and upbringing.
I've talked to one of my lecturer friends and he mentioned this. I believe that this is one of the major reason of what we have today. However, i do not want to put a blame of this, as people are brought up differently and to me, it does bring more spice and flavor to the work they're doing.

- Tunnel Vision.
I've been there once, liking one thing and close my ears and my eyes from other influences. I refrain from naming what is what, but you should know. Its very bad for growth, mentally and artwork-wise.

- Lack of effort in research.
Maus takes 10 years to finish, most of it were on research. Katsuhiro Otomo took 8 years to finish AKIRA. How long does it take to finish one? Probably not enough, but they never know if they dont start. One of the IPCC recipients (animation) mentioned that they do research solely on textbooks. To be honest, its harder to research on myths since most of them are myths, and solid form of information are harder to obtain, or can just simply made up.

- Fear of doing <insert work here>
This is probably the best i've heard so far. For example, people draw forests instead of urban areas because of lack of knowledge or practice in perspectives, or they dont know how to recreate Florence in 1500's. My guess that both of them are true, since i saw it first hand, but then again, i might be wrong.

- Lack of exposure.
Why take only from our country? There's plenty from other nations and places as well. For instance Fate Stay Night, the characters are based from mythical people. The winner of DIGICON6, Gluestudios made an animation from indonesian folklore.

- Standardized style and storytelling.
I dont blame the editors for this. The work submitted will be judged based on the criteria that they set. And, we are so caught up with GILA-GILA format (mad magazine) and we're stuck doing something like that.

I've conversed with Ubder regarding this matter and this is his response.
Quote
amateur ones? or those that got published? I assume they seek to please the editors just to see their artwork published... I'm stressing on the word ARTWORK.... I think KDN is just a convenient excuse for not trying to tell a story. I also assumed that most younger aspiring comic artists loved pin-ups to the detrimental of storytelling. I haven't read much on newer comics nowadays, but knowing thw heavy manga influence, most younger aspiring artist would try to emulate the stroke and visual presentation first... Since most manga are lengthy, they must have realized that they cannot adapt the lenghty pacing of storytelling so settled for simpler solutions... focus on artwork, wispy bare story with no substance... halfway copycats..

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I you have read Katsuhito otomo's compilation memories, is is quite possible to tell a deep story with not so many pages.... I think most local artists did not realized that those great mangaka usually started with shorter stories.. think of the old gen mangaka like rumiko takahashi and otomo. they focus on story or concept first. artwork is more like a tool. Back to the question of depth, maybe these artist were not willing to invest emotionally to the characters they created because when published, they will not own the characters... secondly they do not have enough life experience to add colour and character to their stories. best original story would come from within I suppose because individual nature of each person's perspective. but at the same time they also have to allow the audience to identify with their characters.. that is communicating..

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simply, the younger artists have not read enough good manga.. most knew only the current popular ones. Another thing they may not have realized, a good story need to be re-drafted and revised many times... not just the artwork... unless they are trying to meet tight deadlines... that is before meeting the editor... If baba Chuah can produce good comics how come the newer ones still stuck in doujinshi mode?

Credit to Ubder for that inspirational and educational advice.

The bottom line is, how do we fix this problem? I want to hear the ideas and problems you're facing. We're still at infancy stage and to be honest, let fix this before its too late.

Thank you for reading this and have a good day.
Typical Oddball At Large. Go figure.

Kei-san.Deviantart.com

JaymanJohn

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Re: Current trend of comic artists.
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 02:41:12 AM »
We're still at infancy stage and to be honest, let fix this before its too late.

Wsalam. Baru je nak kata, kao dah tulis dah heheh!

Berkaitan dengan lack of in-depth stories/kelainan cerita tu aku rasa terpulang kepada market.. yes, malaysian comic market nowadays are just kids. so instead of reading sandman yang pening, they chose pokemon yang simple & cantik....

you can go for the sub-niche which minority loves it, but if the sub-niche is too complicated to fathom, people will go for the niche that everybody loves... and that niche is what you see on the book shelves today.

apa guna complicated stories kalau tak menjual? kena fikir juga marketing/pulangan.. nak hardcore pun kena berpijak di bumi yang nyata..

bearing85

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Re: Current trend of comic artists.
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2011, 05:47:36 AM »
wahh..point yg lebih2 kurang aku duk sembang ngan penber masa 2nd last jmp dia..masa dia bru blk dr china aritu..kekeke..

conclusion mudah aku org malaysia pemalas..ramai suka guna style popcorn movies..bg kuasa atau karekteristik pd watak pastu biar ia evolve sendri n diorng just set ending..tu jer..cthnya mat rempit ada kuasa ajaib dan ending dapat awek comel..pacing citer biasanya lebey straight foward..

time kitorang sembang tu aku buat comparison antra x-men dgn the prestige..aku tak kata idea yg simple xleh dikembang dgn baik tp falsafah citer itu tidak disandar pd asas penceritaan yg kukuh..compare watchmen dgn 300, aku lebih suka watchmen..ia punyai sesuatu untuk difikir..walaupun 300 dicalit kontroversi imej parsi tp tidak layak untuk dibandingkan dgn the da vinci code yg lebih jauh mnyelit dicelah fakta yg wujud..

aku tak reti sembang komik sbb aku tak biasa baca komik tp setakat komik yg aku biasa baca dan ada simpan semua tak layak utk aku..hahahaha..lebih teruk byk yg aku benci tp sekadar beli utk support local artist je espeselly komik M..

maaf kata tp kebanyakn point yg ko tulis tu semua bg aku sekdar alasan remeh sahaja..aku lebih suka komen ubder..

ramai org anggap imaginasi kanak2 adalah fresh dan harus dibiar melangkaui logik..mereka seronok melihat imaginasi kanak2 yg bebas amnya dikenali naive..aku plak melihat sebaliknya..imaginasi yg baik harus disandar logik..maka disini awalnya mentaliti pekomik tempatan patut diubah..mereka biar diri mereka berimaginasi seperti budak2 gaya org dewasa krn ia untuk memenuhi impian kanak2 mereka..mahu jd superhero atau sebagainya..

watchmen dr sudut yg lain adalah berbeza..ia citer superhero tp asasnya bukan superhero tp falsafah politik..superhero sekadar topeng untuk bercerita..tepatnya perang dingin..

org2 begini mereka tidak hidup beragama..mereka sesat dalam logik..falsafah dan imaginasi mngekalkan logik mereka..dr situ timbul idea bercerita krn tuhan bg mereka hnya khayalan semata2..

seangkatan dgn mereka adalah saintis yg duk kaji protein2 awal kehidupan..mereka sesat dlm logik sekaligus memaksa mereka berfikir sejauh ini..krn logik itu punyai limitasi mereka kekal sesat tp dalam masa yg sama ia memaksa mereka terus maju untuk meneroka..reflek pd pekomik mereka akan kekal berfalsafah dlm logik..

berbeza dgn yg punyai agama semuanya disandar pd agama sekaligus falsafah untuk berkarya dan mngolah idea trbantut terus..asas itu menjadikan mereka mudah bermotivasi sehingga garis percampuran alam mistik serta realiti terus kabur..yg tinggal hnya idea mudah krn semuanya telah sedia trjawab..

so aku menulis dlm konteks fikiran pekomik yg suka amik mudah..soal cmne idea dikembangkn itu isu lain..samda dr kemampuan berimaginasi maupun stroke yg seswai semua tu dalam konteks perbincangan yg lebih panjang aku kira..

tq klu ade yg sudi baca...kekeke..melalut lebey skit mlm ni.. :)
Hati Riang;:)

vrempire

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Re: Current trend of comic artists.
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2011, 07:23:59 AM »
Aku pun dah lama betul tak baca komik. Tapi kalau aku baca, mesti aku baca komik 'Nizam Bachok'.

Wahhhh..jayman semakin berkematangan nampaknya :)
Quote
apa guna complicated stories kalau tak menjual? kena fikir juga marketing/pulangan.. nak hardcore pun kena berpijak di bumi yang nyata..

Nice and good topic anyway. Waiting to read more :)

JaymanJohn

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Re: Current trend of comic artists.
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2011, 07:34:22 AM »
telur goreng, facebook ada?

vrempire

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Re: Current trend of comic artists.
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2011, 07:45:08 AM »
Ada bro, aku baru PM ko hehe :D

penberbulusenyum

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Re: Current trend of comic artists.
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2011, 10:36:26 PM »
tapi bearing...adakalanya cite yang simple yang tidak terlalu berfikir dan berfalsafah adalah cite yang baik... yang penting buat cite ni ada ilmu, bakat, rajin dan ada duittt..

semua idea-dea org beragama atau x beragama dtg dari NYA..idea emas dan falsafah x dtg bergolek..idea emas tu dtg dari ilham yg diberiNYA...dan ilham diberi pelbagai cara...sekiranya ada idea hebat pun belum pasti jadi kalau xde team yg hebat dari semua bidang  beserta ongkosnya...

Aku kurang faham apa yang ko kata:



org2 begini mereka tidak hidup beragama..mereka sesat dalam logik..falsafah dan imaginasi mngekalkan logik mereka..dr situ timbul idea bercerita krn tuhan bg mereka hnya khayalan semata2..

seangkatan dgn mereka adalah saintis yg duk kaji protein2 awal kehidupan..mereka sesat dlm logik sekaligus memaksa mereka berfikir sejauh ini..krn logik itu punyai limitasi mereka kekal sesat tp dalam masa yg sama ia memaksa mereka terus maju untuk meneroka..reflek pd pekomik mereka akan kekal berfalsafah dlm logik..

berbeza dgn yg punyai agama semuanya disandar pd agama sekaligus falsafah untuk berkarya dan mngolah idea trbantut terus..asas itu menjadikan mereka mudah bermotivasi sehingga garis percampuran alam mistik serta realiti terus kabur..yg tinggal hnya idea mudah krn semuanya telah sedia trjawab..


adakah orang yang tidak beragama tu dimaksudkan bukan islam...?sedangkan cite cite yang ko kagum pun datang dari orang yang bukan islam...

boleh berikan contoh bagi cite yg sesat dlm lojik sebab tidak beragama? dan adakah perkara ini membimbangkan....?


satu lagi aku mcm berat pulak ko katakan fikiran pekomik yg suka amik mudah.. kalau kurang baik pun adalah adil bagi ianya peluang berkembang menjadi lebih baik....
nak jadikan pekomik setanding dengan organisasi komik antarabangsa memanglah  aku x tau..tapi mesti pekomik hendak jadi lebih baik dan hebat dimasa akan datang kaedahnya kena study dan buat reserchlah...


- tuntutan kehendak manusia ni bermacam-macam...bagi aku bagi mereka masa dan evolve .....dan semuanya bergantung pada banyak sebab untuk mencapai sesuatu tahap ......antaranya mungkin dipengaruhi...populasi rakyat/ pembaca, budaya, agama, kekangan kewangan  dann etc...but the progress still moving on...

konfius jugak aku...

« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 11:50:20 PM by penberbulusenyum »

ubder

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Re: Current trend of comic artists.
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2011, 06:07:25 AM »
hahahaha.... nak tulis gak sedikit.... sebab hari ini aku kene forced rest..

Aku rasa, citer yang mendalam nilainya tak semestinya complicated dan penuh fakta, sebaliknya cerita yang simple juga boleh punya nilai yang tinggi....  Ciiter2 Doraemon pon best bagi aku.... sebab apa? Karekternya rasa hidup, pembaca boleh identify dengan karenah dan karekter yang di tonjolkan, kerana ianya membangkit sesuatu rasa atau nostalgia (bagi pembaca tua) bila melihat telatah dan imaginasi dalam komik2 itu.... mereka boleh membawa keseronokan penerokaan sesuatu idea dalam cerita itu walaupun ianya mengarut....  Citer2 Doraemon penuh dengan imaginasi kanak2 yang kita kongsi secara universal....

Bukan fakta beribu atau putar belit jalan cerita yang mesti jadi ukuran, sebaliknya sejauh manakah sesuatu komik itu menyentuh fikiran, emosi ataupun impian kita?

Storytelling dan direction cerita bagi aku lebih penting... Jika aku membaca komik anda, kemanakah aku akan dibawa? Direction of story. Bagaimanakah aku akan dibawa ke sana ? Storytelling which involves the basic elements of Plot, Characters, Idea and world-creation.

Walaupun komik punya kelebihan dari text narration semata, kerana ada lukisan, fungsi lukisan itu bukan saja untuk menggambarkan apa yang ada, tetapi juga apa yang mungkin ada (maknanya menjentik imaginasi anda untuk extrapolate the visual images)..... Begitu juga dengan fungsi narrative, bukan saja menyatakan apa yang ada, tetapi juga mencadangkan apa yang mungkin ada.... This "suggestiveness" dalam komik yang bikin kita berfikir dan tak sabar nak mengetahui lebih lanjut lagi... dan benda ni perlu masa untuk build skill.... Most popular comics ada element ini, paling obvious dan mudah nak dijual adalah  sexual suggestion bila melukis superheroines untuk remaja lelaki... lebih susah nak jual adalah suggestions of morality, justice, spirituality, wonderment, adventure, philosophy....

Cuba pikir... apa yang buat sesuatu komik itu best bagi kita? Lukisan cantik saja kah mencukupi? Originality ke?  Familiarity kah?
Bagi orang2 tua, sense of familiarity tu buat komik2 suratkabar boleh layan, dengan lawak2 yg sinikal atau purely humorous..
Bagi remaja, mungkin sense of exploration.... to learn something new, or to see something from different perspective...

Jadi, jika seseorang ppelukis berbakat ingin membikin komik, apakah yang ingin diciptanya? Sebuah komik cantik?

You wanna be Joe madureira or Mike Mignola? (Actually not every good examples for comparison... because new artists may not know them)...

Aku tak pikir sangat "current trend", it was always the trend for aspiring comic artists since generations past.... Cuma style dan kiblat pengaruh saja berbeza...

hahahaha..... tak larat dah nak tulis sebab aku dah janji nak bikin vidblog ...


one

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bearing85

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Re: Current trend of comic artists.
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2011, 08:19:41 PM »
huh??..hehe..tengkiu penber sbb sudi respon..papehal sblm aku tulis lebey panjang, skrang ni aku brcakp dlm konteks komik yg depth..so posting aku sblm ni hnya cuba nk selami mindset pekomik n motivation diorng..

Quote from: keiichi
regarding the trend of current artists that mostly favors myths and simpler stories (and lack of in-depth stories)

nk buat komik yg bagus of coz la kena ada ilmu..so aku bukan nk citer komik yg bagus atau cmne nk jual komik..dats why ramai yg ulang idea cm keiichi bgtaw..sbb diorng just follow current trend yg popular..

selain islam bg aku penganut agama lain rata2nya hnya beragama secara ritual..muslim pn ramai tp aku xnk sentuh bab ni..selain agama islam hnya sedikit shj bertaraf agama samawi, lebih teruk kebanyakannya telah diseleweng..bila manusia da masuk campur hukum tuhan, pasti byk persoalan yg tidak akan trjwb..maka imaginasi dan logik mula bercampur gaul..dr situ atheis muncul dan falsafah sekularisme berkembang..agama dan kehidupan tidak lg bersatu..

michiko dgn falsafah dia dan pasti stan lee pn sama..bezanya hanya pd bidang kerja..mereka mencari logik kehidupan..bila sampai satu point mereka akan berimaginasi sendri..mereka tiada pegangan jd mereka biar imaginasi berkembang sendri..alam ghaib adalh asing bg mereka tp dr satu sudut mereka percayakannya..imaginasi menghubungkan alam itu dgn mereka..

tolak tepi dlu mindset agama buatan cm budhha/hindu atau taoism..so jelas disini agama bukan sekdar satu aksesori tp sbg kaedah menghubungkan dunia fantasi..personally bg aku mereka yg bukan islam akan kekal mencari logik dlm beragama..

so bg pekomik mereka akan cuba brfalsafah seswai dgn fahaman mereka dlm karya mereka..contohnya falsafah moral cm citer doraemon..pekomik sndri yg tentukan apa yg dikatakan moral yg baik..ada yg munkin brfalsafah atau berpolitik dlm konteks yg khusus cm perang dingin oleh wathmen..

dr falsafah itu seharusnya ia dikembangkn penceritaan cm ubder tulis dlm posting diatas..dr situ plak elemen2 komik yg lain diserap..akhirnya jdlah stu masterpis..tp samda bleh jual atau tak itu isu yg lain..nk selamat jgn melawan arus..buatlah komik cintan..kekekeke.. :)

Hati Riang;:)